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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2012 Canyon 3.7L 4WD automatic SLE
Only way to get it started is to wire direct from battery to white/green wire at ignition switch.
As soon as we pull wire off it shuts down. What I see on schematic I found is that position
(white//green wire) should only have 12V at crank, not at run. Mechanic wants me to bring it
in, but to get it there I have to keep the 12V wired during run….mechanic is an hour away.
Is it safe to run that way for that long? Dumb question, but, not sure if I’m reading or have the
right schematic.
 

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Welcome to the Nation.

The White/Green wire from the ignition switch sends power to the control side of the Run/Crank relay. That relay powers, among other systems, the injectors and the PCM. There should be power on that circuit when the engine is running. Have you checked to see if there is battery voltage at the White/Black wire at the ignition switch connector? Have you tried moving the shift lever to neutral?

I don't think it will damage anything to operate with the power wired as you mentioned. I would suggest keeping an eye on the cluster for any warning signals. You didn't mention anything regarding the fuses, but I'm assuming that they have been checked. That would include the external inline one attached to the battery positive cable, about 4 inches from the terminal. Also there is an inline 5A fuse under the instrument panel outboard of the DLC connector. If you are getting battery voltage to the switch, those fuses will be good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cart,

Thanks for the welcome and the response.

1. For the white/black wire voltage check, what key position (Off, ACC, On, Crank)?
2. Fuses (main fuse box) and relays all checked.
3. Will look at the additional fuse locations you suggest.

I’m also going try to check ground locations including the wonderful splice packs
SP105 and 106 (if they’re on this vehicle).

I’m just an average DIY’er at home so my knowledge is limited. What is the DLC
connector?

If most of this checks out, I’ll hardwire that White/green wire position in the
ignition switch to the battery and let a real mechanic look into the other 42000
possibilities.
 

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The White/Black wire is hot at all times. You should get battery voltage there at all times, even with the switch connector disconnected. The circuit goes through the two inline fuses that I mentioned. If you have 12Volts at the Black/White wire, the fuses are good.

DLC, (Data Link Connector). The open connector under the instrument panel where you connect a scan tool.

The symptoms suggest that battery power is not getting to the ignition switch. When you jump from the battery to the White/Green wire you are also providing the power to the BCM (White/Blue wire) so that it will tell the ECM to actuate the starter. See if you can confirm battery power at the White/Black wire at the switch.

I don't think either SP105 or SP106 are involved in the start circuit. The control circuits are grounded either in the BCM or ECM and the ground for the starter circuit is on the engine block.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Checked everything I could from the last post with all positive results So I hard wired the
white/green ignition switch wire to positive battery and drove to mechanic (65 miles).

Pulled into bay, pulled wire off and truck now STAYED RUNNING!!!! Was always cutting off
during all troubleshooting the past week.

Tryed shutting off numerous times and started fine continuously.

No fault messages, nothing. Code history showed a communication error (sorry, can’t
remember which one). Cleared all codes. Left truck at mechanic to use for a few days
to see if any faults or codes come back. He mentioned that by running the truck for the
hour trip the computers could have re-learned to communicate Or the keys could have
been reprogrammed. Never had a security light so my limited knowledge can’t say.

Will post final results of any findings. Thanks again
 

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Let us know what happens. Running okay now could be a good thing or bad. Nothing was done so there is the chance the problem could resurface, at the worst possible time. Hopeful that it was just a glitch.
 

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I had this exact issue come up occasionally, replacing the ignition switch fixed it (You will have to do the passlock relearn after you replace it) It was around $70 for the switch with housing, you can use your existing lock cylinder with the new housing/switch so you don't have to change keys. When I disassembled the old ignition switch there was a cracked trace on the pcb inside.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I’m a little embarrassed. I forgot (not quite senility yet, but….) to tell you guys we DID replace
the switch (end only, not housing or lock cylinder) BEFORE driving it to mechanic for that hour
long ride, which probably, you guys know better than me, relearned everything. No problems
since. Sorry for leaving that important part of information out. The housing was too much of a
job for me and mechanic suggested to leave old housing for now. I do have the new housing.
Am I leaving myself open for future problem by not replacing housing? Thanks again.
 

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I don't see any benefit in replacing the housing unless there is a definite problem with the ignition key cylinder and it can be traced to a defect in the housing. I have a spare switch/housing and I disassembled the housing to see what was inside. Under the steel plate is just a metal link rod that connects the ignition cylinder with the ignition switch. In the center of that link is a small round rod that moves the switch when the key is inserted, activating the chime when the door is opened with the key in the ignition. The assembly consists of 6 components: housing, 2 switch mount screws, the switch, the connecting link and the "key in ignition" switch actuator. There are no other electrical or mechanical parts.

My guess is that the bean counters at GM figured out a way to sell some housings by making it impossible to purchase the switch separately. The housing that I purchased is an ACDelco part and it has no identification markings oither than the casting date molded into it. The switch has no identification, making it impossible to locate separately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It’s been two more weeks of trying to diagnose this. Ultimately the problem is that as soon as the key is inserted I have no voltage at the ignition switch. As a reminder, I replaced the electronics portion of the switch but not the housing. I have tested the voltage at “most” points in the circuit (image attached), before and after 10 amp SDM fuse, X201 connector, before and after 5 amp DLIS fuse, WHT/BLK wire at ignition switch. Same results at almost every position. I have voltage until insert the key. The only place I have voltage when the key is inserted is on both sides of the 10 amp SDM fuse. Any ideas what would make inserting the key drop voltage? Hopefully you don’t suggest replacing the ignition switch housing…too big of a job for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Results of what you asked:
Key on - white/red and white/green have no voltage

Switch is aftermarket - BWD Engine Management Technology

White/black wire has voltage with no key, no voltage with key in.
Jumper wire from white black directly to battery truck starts right up.
That’s how we got it started a week or so ago. Latest way we started it
was to pierce wire at supply side of 5 amp fuse and jump to battery. This
was to guarantee “some” protection on the circuit (the 5 amp in-line).
 

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I didn't see any previous mention of jumping power from the battery to the White/Black wire. What was in previous posts referred to jumping to the White/Green wire.

Regardless, the situation now is that the electrical problem exists when the wiring is in stock configuration. The problem does not exist if the stock wiring between the fuse box and the ignition switch is bypassed. If you have successfully started the truck, by bypassing the circuit from the fuse box to the 5amp fuse, that would be a hint to where the problem is. If the truck starts normally with the circuit bypassed that pretty much rules out a problem with the switch itself.

When the jumper is installed on the White/Black wire, do you get the voltage readings at the White/Red and White/Green switch terminals with the switch in run position?

Maybe get one of those inline fuse holders to use with the jumper for troubleshooting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yeah, you got me. I forgot to mention the battery to white/blk jumper. Originally to get it up to my mechanic we used the battery to white/green wire jumper. Additional testing after I got it home was when we used the white/blk scenario. I‘ve been trying to take notes on everything we’ve done but I did not write that down, it was just in my (old) head…

To answer your latest question, yes, I do get voltage at white/red and white/green switch terminals with the switch in run position when the jumper is installed.
 

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Something has screwed up the circuit between the 10A Air Bag/IGN fuse and the 5A DLIS fuse. I'm assuming, as I have a 2011 and your truck is a 2012, that the 10A Air Bag fuse is externally mounted in the battery positive harness. If that is your configuration at least you won't have to tear into the fuse box.

The ignition switch schematic in the Service Manual indicates that there are four inline connectors that the circuit (2140) passes through between the two fuses. Wires are either Orange or Orange/White.
In order, from the Air Bag fuse:
1. X111, 2 cavity, color Black. Location: Engine harness to battery harness in the engine compartment, left of engine.
2. X110, 4 cavity, color Dark Gray. Location: Chassis harness to engine harness, in the engine compartment, left of engine.
3. X102, 24 cavity, color Black. Location: Body harness to chassis harness, in the engine compartment left center wheel well behind battery next to EBCM.
4. X201, 22 cavity, color Gray. Location: I/P harness to the body harness, behind right kick panel lower A pillar.
Note "right" is not a typo. :)

Good luck, keep us posted.
 

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Well, thanks for the compliment, but most of the guys here have more experience than I do. My advantage is that I am a collector of information. When I joined here I spent months reading through every Thread on this Forum and the ones over at Coloradofans. Since buying 1961 Impala ragtop, in 1963, I have purchased the Service Manual for every vehicle that I owned and to this day I have the Manuals for every vehicle in the family. Most difficult to acquire was the Manual for my Daughter's Mazda CX-5. Had to cut a deal with a guy in the Seychelle Islands for that.

Anyway, most of what I post here comes from various sources of info that I have. Not much is plain knowledge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So…my mechanics “suggested“ solution was to run a new fuse wire from after 10A fuse to WHT/BLK ignition wire, with a 5A inline fuse. Not so sure i want to do this yet.

The picture of the circuit I sent you a while back is probably not the full 2140 you mentioned, as I don’t see the X111 and X110 connectors. It also shows a few in-line splices (J106, J207 and J208) that you didn’t mention. Do you have a schematic of the entire 2140 circuit? Do you have any pictures of the engine compartment with the positions of the connectors and splices? I‘ having a hard time finding them. A picture of the area of X102 would also be helpful.

Thanks. Any additional help would be great. Mechanic hasn’t contacted me in well over a week.
 
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