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Discussion Starter #1
Had a buddy of mine who recently wrecked his 01 4Runner. He had a set of 275/65 Nitto Terra Grapplers and 18in Raceline Rampage wheels. Not quite sure of the offset or backspacing(Either +25mm, +12mm, or -6mm), but when we test fitted one on the front right, it did stick out another half inch or probably more than stock 04 Z71 rims on 31/10.5/15 tires. Already had the feeling it would rub at turning and while it barely misses the front bumper (Will trim if needed), it does hit the back of the fender flare and also I believe the frame. Trying to do this in a cost effective manner. My truck is an 04 Z71 2wd with 140k with the stock torsion keys cranked only about 1-1.5in, so I'm assuming the stock keys may be worn and sagged. Any suggestions? I know a Performance Accessories 3" body lift will most likely take care of the rubbing issue, but as I would be most likely unable to do the work myself, labor costs would be about 400-600 on top of the lift itself. Would I be able to get away with a new set of torsion keys (Suspension MAXX, Readylift, etc..) and shackles and be able to run the vehicle without much issue?
 

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torsion keys don't sag. The bars will....and the keys are turned up to compensate for the sag.

Are you torsion keys maxed out on adjustment now? I mean, you can't turn the bolts any further?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
torsion keys don't sag. The bars will....and the keys are turned up to compensate for the sag.

Are you torsion keys maxed out on adjustment now? I mean, you can't turn the bolts any further?
Excuse me, I meant what you said about the bars sagging. I don't believe they are maxed out as they are right now, but a harsher ride has me worried about cranking more. Originally I did not do the crank, it was done by a local shop after getting my alignment done.
 

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Excuse me, I meant what you said about the bars sagging. I don't believe they are maxed out as they are right now, but a harsher ride has me worried about cranking more. Originally I did not do the crank, it was done by a local shop after getting my alignment done.
Doesn't matter what key you use to lift the truck, the ride will be identical at any given height.

For example, crank your factory keys to the max. Record the ride height. Replace keys and crank to the same ride height. Same ride quality.
Keys/torsion bars don't affect ride. It's the relationship between the upper and lower control arms. Cranking the bars to lift changes the angle between the UCA/LCA, making them work against each other.

I hope you made an error in this response too. Lift first, alignment second. Not the other way around. Alignment, then lift = alignment specs changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Doesn't matter what key you use to lift the truck, the ride will be identical at any given height.

For example, crank your factory keys to the max. Record the ride height. Replace keys and crank to the same ride height. Same ride quality.
Keys/torsion bars don't affect ride. It's the relationship between the upper and lower control arms. Cranking the bars to lift changes the angle between the UCA/LCA, making them work against each other.

I hope you made an error in this response too. Lift first, alignment second. Not the other way around. Alignment, then lift = alignment specs changes.
Yes that was another error in the response, running on very little sleep. Yes it was cranked, then it was aligned.

Just going off what I had read regarding the keys such as the Suspension Maxx, which had the indexed key. Maintaining factory ride was what made me believe that.

From what I can also tell, new shocks and bumpstops are going to be in my future, tearing on both sides right now
 

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Nah, it's a very common misconception that new keys equal good ride. It's impossible to maintain factory ride with a torsion bar lift. All keys do the same thing, stock or otherwise. New keys have a different index pattern, allowing more lift. That's all. Same affect though. To take a stock truck and lift the front level to a stock rear height the ride is pretty close. But above that is when it gets more rough. Three-quarter inch to a little over an inch is fine.

I'd encourage you to do a little more reading up on torsion bar lifting (but not if you are sleepy). I'm not sure what you want to accomplish by bump stop changes. And tearing on both sides has left me confused too.

If it is a sleep issue lets carry this thread over until tomorrow when you're rested.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Short explanations on my part are most likely what is the problem
I'll be sure to do more reading over the torsion bar lifting tonight. As far as what I said about the bump stops tearing, I just meant that it was bouncing off my LCA and the material had begun to tear and crumble. I don't believe my truck has even had new shocks from stock, so the shocks will have to be replaced regardless before I decide to lift more.

I suppose more or less I will just need to crank the stock more to see how far I can go and how much the ride will change.
 

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Ahh gotcha. You're pretty low if you are banging the bump stops. If that is true, then stock keys may not net you much additional lift. Also if confirmed to be true, you may consider replacing the actual torsion bars, instead of keys. It sort of depends on how much lift you are after. Stock keys with new torsion bars could give you adequate lift. You could like 1.5" to 2" rear and get darn close to level. Bars can be cheaper than keys too.

If you have factory shocks at 140,000 miles, they are very likely worn out. That is going to contribute to tire were too, the tire can't held the ground very well, and will cup and wear unevenly. The wheel actually dribbles down the road.

I had to ask about tearing because CV boots tear (but now I remember you drive 2wd), so do edges of tires. I wondered if you meant those things, which is a result of other issues.

A 275 wide tire is about the best you're going to get away with, without rubbing. It may still rub a little bit with a torsion bar lift. A TB lift pulls the tires inward reducing inner clearances. Since you rub now with a tire more narrow, and smaller diameter it's more likely than not that you are going to rub. A body lift will cure interferences with the bumper but that's all. The body mount and the sway bar are unaffected by a body lift.

A 275/65-18 is about 1.5" taller than stock.

Unfortunately we can't help with rubbing vs. wheel offset since you identified a large range in the OP. A +25 to a -6 is 1.25" variance. Also, the offset values relate to the width of wheel. So a +25 or -6 offset has a different value on a different width wheel.

This helps:
Custom rims, wheel tire packages for your ride - RIMSnTIRES.com

I think we are back on track now.
To lift the rear suspension (not body) about 2", you'll need longer shocks. Longer shocks are not required for the front. But in your case with high miles a new shock is probably a good idea. But extended length is not necessary, a stock replacement is all you're looking for.

Hope that helps. Thanks for the rest of the info, it's helpful to make sure you're going in the right direction.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ahh gotcha. You're pretty low if you are banging the bump stops. If that is true, then stock keys may not net you much additional lift. Also if confirmed to be true, you may consider replacing the actual torsion bars, instead of keys. It sort of depends on how much lift you are after. Stock keys with new torsion bars could give you adequate lift. You could like 1.5" to 2" rear and get darn close to level. Bars can be cheaper than keys too.

If you have factory shocks at 140,000 miles, they are very likely worn out. That is going to contribute to tire were too, the tire can't held the ground very well, and will cup and wear unevenly. The wheel actually dribbles down the road.

A 275 wide tire is about the best you're going to get away with, without rubbing. It may still rub a little bit with a torsion bar lift. A TB lift pulls the tires inward reducing inner clearances. Since you rub now with a tire more narrow, and smaller diameter it's more likely than not that you are going to rub. A body lift will cure interferences with the bumper but that's all. The body mount and the sway bar are unaffected by a body lift.

A 275/65-18 is about 1.5" taller than stock.

Unfortunately we can't help with rubbing vs. wheel offset since you identified a large range in the OP. A +25 to a -6 is 1.25" variance. Also, the offset values relate to the width of wheel. So a +25 or -6 offset has a different value on a different width wheel.

This helps:
Custom rims, wheel tire packages for your ride - RIMSnTIRES.com

I think we are back on track now.
To lift the rear suspension (not body) about 2", you'll need longer shocks. Longer shocks are not required for the front. But in your case with high miles a new shock is probably a good idea. But extended length is not necessary, a stock replacement is all you're looking for.

Hope that helps. Thanks for the rest of the info, it's helpful to make sure you're going in the right direction.
Thank you so much for all the explanation and help. Seem to have gotten a full nights rest now.

From what I was able to figure out, the rims are Raceline Rampage 901's. 18x9 and I believe it is the -6mm offset and 4.75 backspacing. Hopefully that may be helpful in knowing what types or ways of going about the lift.

My current tires (31/10.5/15) have never rubbed on anything. With the 275/65/18, we only noticed the tires caught on the back of the front fender flares and as you said the body mount, but I believe the body mount was at if not close to full crank. Reading up last night I did see that numerous lifts whether big or small, most cut up the bottom of the flare.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Alright now that I have all my info right, I just wanted to cut it down and lose all the "extra" stuff to the real question and also to not make anyone have to read everything above to find out what was asked

2004 Z71 2wd I5
140k
Stock shocks (Haven't been replaced since purchase at 73k if not longer from previous owner)
Cranked stock keys 1-1.5in about 3 years ago (Bars possibly sagged)
31/10.5/15 Falken Rocky Mts on stock Z71 rims

Wanting to fit
275/65/18 Nitto Terra Grapplers
Raceline Rampage 901's 18x9 -6mm offset 4.75 backspacing
Will need new shocks also with new set up regardless of any lift

Options?

New keys and 2in shackles/AAL (Possibly bars as well if sagged too much)
3" PA Body lift
Suspension lift (Any brand 4"-5")

Not necessarily looking for the cheapest and most efficient way, name brands of course is better, but would prefer not to be in the hole too terribly bad.

Would new keys and shackles/AAL be enough to not rub on back fender flare or anything on the backside? (Understand trimming might be necessary and will do) 2" Readylift leveling kit in San Antonio installed for $375. Would pay extra to get shackles or AAL on (or could do all at friends).

Would 3" PA body lift be better for now? (Most likely would do new keys and shackles
down the line) Body lift would most likely be installed by shop. Aware it can be done without shop lifts, but also difficult to do without and a little dangerous from friends experience

Suspension (4-5")? Seeing as I am a 2WD Z71, not too keen on full suspension lift, but includes sets of new shocks, some also new keys, so could be considered if right price. Suspension could be done at friends place as well

Any and all help is very greatly appreciated.

Also thanks 08Canyon for being able to clear up a majority of questions in the beginning, along with being able to answer those coming from a sleep deprived college student
 

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LOL, good stuff up there.

I guess something that wasn't asked about before was the measurement from the center of the hub to the bottom of the fender lip. Truck parked on a flat surface, and under its own weight. That will help determine how much lift is possible. If you can get that measurement that will be helpful.
Just hold your tape at the center of the hub and measure vertically to the fender.

If you are too badly sagged, I think bars may be a better option for you. It isn't too often that bars are replaced though, but it can be cheaper than keys, and get you the lift you're after.

Shocks up front would be a welcome by your truck, but not necessary because of lift. And stock length is adequate. Longer rear shocks are recommended. If the rear end flexes too much, they can become over extended otherwise.

I think the tire is a little bit big, but if you are okay with it rubbing then it should be fine. I honestly can't say if a 275 will rub. It's a little bit tall, and a little wide.

Keep in mind too that any key is virtually the same as another. I don't know the exact specs, but I'm willing to GUESS the the reindex of the aftermarket keys are similar to one another. Therefore, overall lift should be darn near identical no matter which key manufacturer you select.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I knew there was one other thing I forgot to do at work today. After reading over the cranking tb "How-to", I saw the picture measuring from center hub to fender. I'll be sure to get that tomorrow. Just don't have tape to measure tonight
 
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