I just replied to you in the other thread. I pull the manifold when I do one.

 

Ican't seem to get to all the manifold bolts

 

Okay, which ones?
I know I had to take the alternator loose and the battery out when I did mine.
At least for the front ones.

 

I get my 15 socket the back bolt using extensions but I can't seem get enough leverage break loose. I'm really trying not to remove the manifold

 

Tried a cheater bar? haha

 

I'll say this:

the time you mess around trying to avoid removing the intake manifold........ usually ends up wasting time. I was able to remove mine pretty quick.........wide open access to remove and replace the starter.

Also, once you remove the intake manifold........ remove that stupid ass cover on it. I took me 15 minutes to reinstall the intake manifold w/o the cover on it.

 

I replied in your other thread too about how to jump the starter. I was able to remove my starter between the frame and transmission pretty easily. I have a 04 ZQ8.

From what I remember I just used various length extensions to give me the tight room I needed to get them off. Also removed the splash shield.

 

Ive made my mind up that im taking it to the dealer i guess. Its not been in for service and i just turned 150k so they could prob check for updates and other various things for that mileage. With that being said, atxjax do i need someone to key the starter like normal when i try to apply 12v with a jumper at the purple signal wire? And shouldnt i need to apply 12v to the main red wire if the solenoid is bad? If the solenoid is bad internally wouldnt that mean its not making connection with the main feed?

 

To test if it truly is the starter solenoid or motor itself would i just put my voltmeter on the purple wire and then ground and check for 12v on purple wire to see if its passing through the ignition switch?

 

I think I missed something somewhere between the two threads. I thought you said that the solenoid was "clicking". If the solenoid was clicking, that is evidence that the power (purple wire) is at the solenoid. Your problem is with the starter. The solenoid is grounded by the PCM, so it is assumed that there is a ground. That means that there is a problem with either the solenoid or the starter, which will require a starter replacement. Shorting across the terminals does not guarantee the truck will start. It just sends power from the starter battery terminal to the solenoid. If the problem is the starter moter, "shorting it" probably won't help.

All of the above information is only relevant if the electrical system is good. In other words, good power and good ground.

 

Thank you the the clarity cart. Yes it does click very loud when i try and start it, and if i hold it in the start position, it will click multiple times in unison very slowly like say each second. My money is on the starter itself. I just live less than 2 miles from the dealer and i really dont wanna foot a tow bill before a $600 replacement. But if i cant get it to start with the tricks then i guess ill have to pony up the dough.

 

Just a little update. Dealer replaced starter. Called said it was ready. Got there and paid the $540 labor bill then got in the truck and guess what? Didn't start, same click click click. Walked back in through the keys on the counter and told them it wouldn't start. Fast forward to this morning after an hour of tech time at $110 and a new $115 battery as suggested by the tech, they say it fires right up and is ready. Go to pick it up and click click click. Got out and screamed obscenities at the entire service center from the parking lot and then it decides to start. So I drive home somewhat happier and drive a couple places starts just fine. Then while getting gas it does again. Took ten minutes of trying it and finally it starts. I'm home for the night and honestly about ready to burn it to the ground after a $900 day at the dealer and still doesn't work right.

 

No lights on the dash or anything?

 

All lights, blower, radio, everything works just fine. Brand new starter, brand new heavy duty battery. Just blows my mind. Now thinking ignition switch components...

 

That's a major bummer. I am really surprised that the starter wasn't the problem. If there is any such thing as a "bright side", to what has happened, it is that you have eliminated the starter and the battery from the equation. When you have relaxed a bit and feel like trying something else, there are a couple of things to do. Something is interrupting the circuit, either on the power side or ground.

There are two relays in the start circuit. The BCM signals the Run/Crank relay to close, which provides power to the Start Relay. The ground for the Run Crank relay is G105, the infamous little black box, on the fender wall, aft of the battery. If you aren't familiar with it, let me know and I'll post some pictures.

The Start Relay is grounded through the PCM. There is less chance that the problem is there, but the ground for the PCM is on the left side of the engine block, just forward of the Crank Position Sensor, below the starter.

For the power side of the circuit, try replacing the Run/Crank and Start relays or swapping them with other similar relays in the box.

 

Thanks cart. I will start with relays tomorrow afternoon when I get back from hunting. I did move them around beforehand but maybe one is sticky. And I'm not sure of the g105 box I've never noticed it. It's just hard to pinpoint when it's so random

 

I did notice they had the kick panels off checking the bcm today at the dealer. But they never said anything other than it had 29cca on the battery

 

Should I mention it has an aftermarket viper alarm/remote start system? It's never gave any problems.

 

And could the ignition switch possibly be going bad? It does have 150k on it

 

"Should I mention it has an aftermarket viper alarm/remote start system? It's never gave any problems."

I'm not sure on that. Try using the remote start every time and see if anything changes. That would also take the ignitions switch out of the picture.

"And could the ignition switch possibly be going bad? It does have 150k on it"

At this point, I wouldn't rule out anything, but that is not something I would suspect.

These are pictures of G105. A bunch of different grounds in one location. If there is sufficient access, try to open the box and check the condition of the terminals inside. The "cover" in only held on by two molded in tabs and the friction of the pins. I used a small screwdriver. At the very minimum, remove the bolt and clean the mating surfaces and tug LIGHTLY on the wires to check for broken ones.

 

Pretty sure I pm'd u my number before, if u need a hand shoot me a text and I'll see if I can't get over to help you out

 

Thanks man I will if I need to. So today, every time I tried the remote start it fired up. First time I try ignition, it just clicks. So I try the remote start again. Nothing. Gonna try swapping relays first and I'll report back.

 

Do you know the Model number of the Viper alarm/remote start? I would like to try to find a schematic online and see how it connects with, and affects the electrical system. Is there any way to disable the Viper?

 

I believe it's a Clifford rsx3.5. Viper and Clifford crossbred a couple units. It's literally tied into everything and whoever done the install knew what they were doing because it's very neat and well put together. I will tell you after chasing and cleaning all the grounding points you mentioned, that soon as I got them hooked back up, it started up just fine with both the key and the remote start. I cycled it back and forth nearly 20 times and not one problem. So maybe it was just crusty grounds.

 

Okay, that's good news. In the start circuit, I think that ground point just affects the Run/Start relay, which could cause the engine not to start. If you didn't move anything in the fuse box, this time, maybe you found the source of the problem. If you also moved the relays, there may be a bad fuse box connection to one of those. Keep us posted.

 

I swap relays around in the fuse box but it didn't start. That's when I decided to jump in and clean the grounds. So far this morning it's been perfect. Started each time. Cart I can't thank you enough. You saved me lots of time and headache!

 

Too bad we couldn't have found this out before the starter change. The symptoms all pointed to a starter defect. Learn something new every day. Hope that it is finally fixed.

 

Yea well. Guess old symptoms don't necessarily apply to these newer vehicles. But yes, I even reprogrammed the remote starts crank time to 1.6 seconds to avoid the quick crank that made it die out the first time of the morning. It was set on .6 seconds! Been starting all long so I believe it may be cured. Thanksagain! Hope this thread may save someone else $900. CHECK YOUR GROUNDS AND BATTERY!